We have a reply:
===
Dear Linda,
I refer to your email dated 17 Nov 08.
We confirm you are holding an Ordinary Membership with golfing privileges. We do not have a category called Ordinary Golfing Membership, and no members hold a membership called Ordinary Golfing Membership. Even after we introduced the Ordinary Social Membership, the membership with golfing privileges continued to be referred to as Ordinary Membership in all our official correspondence. As mentioned in our earlier correspondences, when we referred to “Golfing” Members in our letter on the reduced subscriptions and in the website, we did so to differentiate them from “Social” Members – we apologise if this has led to some confusion. We have taken note of this and will refer to the various memberships by their proper names in all future correspondences.
As for the website, we have removed all types of membership as we are currently not selling memberships, and are preparing to completely change the website to reflect the new Club facilities.
Yours sincerely
===
"We apologise if this has led to some confusion".....?#!@#$@#$%@#$%
So it is our fault that we are confused. That they have been "confusing" prospect members with "Ordinary Golf Membership"? That they have used "Golfing Members" in their correspondences to us? Isn't this just a case of "over-marketing" with overstated exaggeration, embellishments and double-speak?
"we did so to differentiate them from 'Social' Members" - I agree. It is better distinction than "Ordinary members with golfing privileges". So just change it to "Golfing Members" then. What's the matter with doing that?
Wednesday, November 19, 2008
Membership Buy-Back Scheme - Update
Ms. Ng has been corresponding with the GM on this issue. (See last week's posting on this)
Below is the latest chaser.
==
Dear Herbert,
Below is your reply in blue.
"We have explored your recommendations thoroughly and the
management has concurred that, since there are agents who have
interested buyers, excited by the new developments in the Legends
Fort Canning Park, and willing to purchase the memberships in the
open market currently, we need not implement a buy-back scheme and it
will be more beneficial for you to sell it through this existing
channel. Please feel free to let us know if you wish to sell your
membership and we can make the necessary introduction. "
I'm afraid that your reply simply informed members to sell it at open market. Will the management help the members to sell at reasonable price and waive the transfer fee?
Otherwise, please give the members Buy Back Scheme as an option.
Regards
==
Will the Management and Owner offer a Buy Back Scheme?
Will they instead waive transfer fees?
Will they have another higher membership level?
Enquiring minds what to know.
Stay tuned...
Below is the latest chaser.
==
Dear Herbert,
Below is your reply in blue.
"We have explored your recommendations thoroughly and the
management has concurred that, since there are agents who have
interested buyers, excited by the new developments in the Legends
Fort Canning Park, and willing to purchase the memberships in the
open market currently, we need not implement a buy-back scheme and it
will be more beneficial for you to sell it through this existing
channel. Please feel free to let us know if you wish to sell your
membership and we can make the necessary introduction. "
I'm afraid that your reply simply informed members to sell it at open market. Will the management help the members to sell at reasonable price and waive the transfer fee?
Otherwise, please give the members Buy Back Scheme as an option.
Regards
==
Will the Management and Owner offer a Buy Back Scheme?
Will they instead waive transfer fees?
Will they have another higher membership level?
Enquiring minds what to know.
Stay tuned...
Tuesday, November 18, 2008
Ordinary Golf Membership Status - More 2
My wife has been pursuing more regarding having a formal letter stating that we are "Ordinary Golf Member" instead of "Ordinary Member with Golfing Privileges". She has not been getting a reply, so here is her latest chaser:
===
Dear Amy,
Please revert as I have not heard anything back from you or the Club or even from Herbert. I want an Official Contract letter stating that we are holding an Ordinary Golf Membership and NOT an Ordinary Membership with Golfing Privileges. They are 2 different meanings to the membership.
If I am going to be charged the Golfing fees for Malaysia while the club is undergoing a renovation (Because you claimed that we are Golfing Members), I deserved to be given a proper Contract so as to avoid dispute later on from the Proprietor that we are not Golfing members.
Also, I noticed that the link http://www.legendsfortcanning.com/fortcanning/member.htm for the Types of Memberships have been removed. Why is there so? Are you undergoing change of type Memberships again?
Appreciate your reply and explanation to the above. Also, follow up with our revised Contract.
Kind regards,
Linda
===
It is interesting that they have taken down all info at the Membership page of the club website. This just feeds the conspiracy theory that they are going to create a 3rd type of membership above "Ordinary Member with Golfing Privileges". Let's see how the club responds now.
===
Dear Amy,
Please revert as I have not heard anything back from you or the Club or even from Herbert. I want an Official Contract letter stating that we are holding an Ordinary Golf Membership and NOT an Ordinary Membership with Golfing Privileges. They are 2 different meanings to the membership.
If I am going to be charged the Golfing fees for Malaysia while the club is undergoing a renovation (Because you claimed that we are Golfing Members), I deserved to be given a proper Contract so as to avoid dispute later on from the Proprietor that we are not Golfing members.
Also, I noticed that the link http://www.legendsfortcanning.com/fortcanning/member.htm for the Types of Memberships have been removed. Why is there so? Are you undergoing change of type Memberships again?
Appreciate your reply and explanation to the above. Also, follow up with our revised Contract.
Kind regards,
Linda
===
It is interesting that they have taken down all info at the Membership page of the club website. This just feeds the conspiracy theory that they are going to create a 3rd type of membership above "Ordinary Member with Golfing Privileges". Let's see how the club responds now.
Friday, November 14, 2008
Membership Buy-Back Scheme
I have been following this email thread between a couple of members and the GM on the above issue. I was waiting to see how this pans out before posting, but I think it is time to update the members at large and in exile.
Last week Ms. Ng wrote in to Mr. Hofer:
===
Dear Herbert,
We joined the club for about 4 years only for the facilities offered. As there is a material changed, the club has to offer Buy Back Scheme to members who not wish to continue with the membership. This was agreed in your briefing.
It is unreasonable to ask members to sell the membership at open market and pay the transfer fee.
We appreciate that you could look into it and give members a reply by next week. Otherwise, we have no alternative but to seek help at appropriate channel.
Regards
===
The GM wrote back to Ms. Ng:
===
Dear Mr Ng,
Thank you very much for your valuable suggestion on the buy-back scheme and sorry for the somewhat late reply.
We have explored your recommendations thoroughly and the management has concurred that, since there are agents who have interested buyers, excited by the new developments in the Legends Fort Canning Park, and willing to purchase the memberships in the open market currently, we need not implement a buy-back scheme and it will be more beneficial for you to sell it through this existing channel. Please feel free to let us know if you wish to sell your membership and we can make the necessary introduction.
We sincerely appreciate your feedback and look forward to your continuous support especially when we open again in 2009 with the revamped and improved Legends Fort Canning Park.
Yours sincerely,
===
Lyn also wrote in a couple of days after that:
===
Dear Herbert,
I agree with Ms Ng's views.
Given that (i) the club has changed its facilities and the use of the colonial building and (ii) the basis upon which members had purchased the membership no longer exists in view of the renovations, management should consider a buy back scheme to purchase the membership at a reasonable price.
Alternatively, management should assist members who are no longer interested in being members to sell their membership and agree to waive the monthly fees and transfer fees during the period when members are seeking buyers.
With respect to your email below, you mentioned that there are agents with interested buyers. If so, can you provide the details of such agents for our consideration as well? We are indeed curious to find out if there are really "interested buyers, excited by the new developments
in the Legends Fort Canning Park."
We look forward to your response.
Kind regards,
===
The GM wrote back:
===
Dear Ms. Ng,
At the members briefing the owners promised to "consider looking into a
buyback scheme" and as per my earlier e-mail we have given you our decision.
In case you wish to sell your membership we would recommend you to contact
Tee Up Marketing at 62980174, who has been transacting sale of memberships.
Very kind regards
===
The phone number given was wrong so he corrected it in another email as 6298 2559 or 9760 5080.
Anyhow, Ms. Ng wrote back to the GM:
===
Dear Herbert,
Sorry, where is your Buy Back Scheme? We appreciate that you address this issue and not push it to the sale agent. Buy Back Scheme and Open market sale are totally two different matters. Please don't confuse the members and delay this matter.
Please give members a reply.
Regards
===
There are more developments. I will post it later today.
Cheers!!!
Last week Ms. Ng wrote in to Mr. Hofer:
===
Dear Herbert,
We joined the club for about 4 years only for the facilities offered. As there is a material changed, the club has to offer Buy Back Scheme to members who not wish to continue with the membership. This was agreed in your briefing.
It is unreasonable to ask members to sell the membership at open market and pay the transfer fee.
We appreciate that you could look into it and give members a reply by next week. Otherwise, we have no alternative but to seek help at appropriate channel.
Regards
===
The GM wrote back to Ms. Ng:
===
Dear Mr Ng,
Thank you very much for your valuable suggestion on the buy-back scheme and sorry for the somewhat late reply.
We have explored your recommendations thoroughly and the management has concurred that, since there are agents who have interested buyers, excited by the new developments in the Legends Fort Canning Park, and willing to purchase the memberships in the open market currently, we need not implement a buy-back scheme and it will be more beneficial for you to sell it through this existing channel. Please feel free to let us know if you wish to sell your membership and we can make the necessary introduction.
We sincerely appreciate your feedback and look forward to your continuous support especially when we open again in 2009 with the revamped and improved Legends Fort Canning Park.
Yours sincerely,
===
Lyn also wrote in a couple of days after that:
===
Dear Herbert,
I agree with Ms Ng's views.
Given that (i) the club has changed its facilities and the use of the colonial building and (ii) the basis upon which members had purchased the membership no longer exists in view of the renovations, management should consider a buy back scheme to purchase the membership at a reasonable price.
Alternatively, management should assist members who are no longer interested in being members to sell their membership and agree to waive the monthly fees and transfer fees during the period when members are seeking buyers.
With respect to your email below, you mentioned that there are agents with interested buyers. If so, can you provide the details of such agents for our consideration as well? We are indeed curious to find out if there are really "interested buyers, excited by the new developments
in the Legends Fort Canning Park."
We look forward to your response.
Kind regards,
===
The GM wrote back:
===
Dear Ms. Ng,
At the members briefing the owners promised to "consider looking into a
buyback scheme" and as per my earlier e-mail we have given you our decision.
In case you wish to sell your membership we would recommend you to contact
Tee Up Marketing at 62980174, who has been transacting sale of memberships.
Very kind regards
===
The phone number given was wrong so he corrected it in another email as 6298 2559 or 9760 5080.
Anyhow, Ms. Ng wrote back to the GM:
===
Dear Herbert,
Sorry, where is your Buy Back Scheme? We appreciate that you address this issue and not push it to the sale agent. Buy Back Scheme and Open market sale are totally two different matters. Please don't confuse the members and delay this matter.
Please give members a reply.
Regards
===
There are more developments. I will post it later today.
Cheers!!!
Wednesday, November 12, 2008
Ordinary Golf Membership Status - More
Another member - Sally - has been corresponding with the Club management on the same issue: She and her husband joined 4 years ago and wanted clarification that her membership is "Ordinary Golf" Status.
She updated me on her email correspondences. See them below in chronological order:
===
To: contact@legendsfortcanning.com
Subject: Enquiry: Exact Membership Status (urgent)
With reference to our files attached.Pls look through and help us understand our membership status.
As far as we understand, when we joined in year 2004, there were only 2 types of membership i.e. Ordinary and Corporate.And under Ordinary,it's sub-divided into "Family" and "Individual".
The membership allows us to enjoy facilties of both clubs( which is The Legends Fort Canning and The Legends Golf & Country Resort).It's stated for golf rates, we have to call and enquire (pls note it didn't say "free green fee").
Now, our questions....ever since the club decided to renovate the club premises, we come to realise that we fall into "Golf membership" category simply because we pay a monthly subscription of $125+!
1.We would like to know since when my "Ordinary membership" status is now "Golf membership"?
2.When did the club re-categorise the various memberships when in the past there were only "Ordinary" and "Corporate"?
3.Assuming ours is now re-named ( as you seem fit) as "Golf membership", why is there no formal letter written to us regarding the change of status?
Now, before you conveniently charge mus the extra subscription fee (during this period when the club is renovating)due to your assumption that we're "Golf" member, can you please take time to verify our status again.
Should you still think we fit into "Golf membership", we insist that you have to write to us a formal letter/contract, stating clearly that our membership is now recognised as "Golf Family Membership" instead of "Ordinary Family Membership".
It's only fair that you formally verify our status before charging us anything further during this period of renovation.
We hope to receive your reply on this issue asap.Please do not take too long as our patience is quite limited and you should know that the club reputation is already at stake after what have already gone through the public media.
Regards
===
The reply she got was:
===
Thank you for your email dated 09 November 2008.
We would like to apologize once again for any inconvenience caused by the Club renovations, and seek your understanding for the administrative proceedings associated with them.
With regards to the type of membership that you are holding, we would like to clarify that you had singed up for an Ordinary Membership which includes golfing privileges at The Legends Golf & Country Resort Bhd. As part of your application, it was also stated that part of your monthly sub fee will be paid to the Legends Golf & Country Resort Bhd under the declaration form signed by you when applying for the membership. I have attached the scan copies of the form for your perusal (please refer to point 8).
At the Members' Briefing on 6 Oct 08 and in our letter dated 28 Oct08, we mentioned that "Golfing Members" would have to pay a reduced subscription during the renovation period. The term "Golfing Member" refers to all categories of members who enjoy golfing privileges at The Legends Golf & Country Resort, and it was used to distinguish these members from"Social Members" who do not have golfing privileges. We apologise if this was unclear to you.
For this instance, we would like to reiterate that there are no changes made to your membership type. It was at the later stage that the club had introduced Social Membership as part of the club membership drive to recruit new members.
Alternatively, as mentioned in our letter, we are offering a one-time irreversible conversion to Social Membership. I have attached a copy of the conversion form for your perusal. Kindly fax the completed form to Membership Department at 6334 7873 should you decide to do the conversion to Social Membership. Upon receiving your form, we will waive the sub fee from 16 October 2008 to March 2009 during the renovation period. When the club re-opens, your monthly sub fee will be based on Social Membership type.
We thank you for your past support and look forward to welcoming you back to new and improved Club facilities in 2009.
With kind regards
===
That obviously does not address her main concern. So Sally has written back with the following:
===
I fail to understand why you see no need to re-name our membership from "Ordinary Member" to "Ordinary Golf Member" since you mentioned that we are member with golfing privileges and this distinguish us from the Social Members when the club decided to offer Social memberships!
And as per your website, there are just 2 types of memberships that the club has now, which are "Ordinary Golfing" and "Ordinary Social".Wouldn't it be clearer and fairer to re-align all membership types from the old ones to the current new types?Which in this case, re-align/re-name ours from "Ordinary Member" to "Ordinary Golfing" member!?
Unless you're telling me that "Ordinary Member with golfing privileges" is not the same as term as "Ordinary Golfing" membership!!!??? Pls comment.
===
As you can read, she and I are both arriving at the same conclusion: why does it say "Ordinary Golf Membership" on the website and the club refuses to put that down in writing. It is not that we are "unclear" and do not understand their explanation. It's that we want "Ordinary Golf Membership" in writing.
Those of you are "Ordinary Members with golfing privileges", would you also like to get this matter cleared up and in writing? Please write in to the club and attention it to Ellane and Herbert. Do update us on what they say.
She updated me on her email correspondences. See them below in chronological order:
===
To: contact@legendsfortcanning.com
Subject: Enquiry: Exact Membership Status (urgent)
With reference to our files attached.Pls look through and help us understand our membership status.
As far as we understand, when we joined in year 2004, there were only 2 types of membership i.e. Ordinary and Corporate.And under Ordinary,it's sub-divided into "Family" and "Individual".
The membership allows us to enjoy facilties of both clubs( which is The Legends Fort Canning and The Legends Golf & Country Resort).It's stated for golf rates, we have to call and enquire (pls note it didn't say "free green fee").
Now, our questions....ever since the club decided to renovate the club premises, we come to realise that we fall into "Golf membership" category simply because we pay a monthly subscription of $125+!
1.We would like to know since when my "Ordinary membership" status is now "Golf membership"?
2.When did the club re-categorise the various memberships when in the past there were only "Ordinary" and "Corporate"?
3.Assuming ours is now re-named ( as you seem fit) as "Golf membership", why is there no formal letter written to us regarding the change of status?
Now, before you conveniently charge mus the extra subscription fee (during this period when the club is renovating)due to your assumption that we're "Golf" member, can you please take time to verify our status again.
Should you still think we fit into "Golf membership", we insist that you have to write to us a formal letter/contract, stating clearly that our membership is now recognised as "Golf Family Membership" instead of "Ordinary Family Membership".
It's only fair that you formally verify our status before charging us anything further during this period of renovation.
We hope to receive your reply on this issue asap.Please do not take too long as our patience is quite limited and you should know that the club reputation is already at stake after what have already gone through the public media.
Regards
===
The reply she got was:
===
Thank you for your email dated 09 November 2008.
We would like to apologize once again for any inconvenience caused by the Club renovations, and seek your understanding for the administrative proceedings associated with them.
With regards to the type of membership that you are holding, we would like to clarify that you had singed up for an Ordinary Membership which includes golfing privileges at The Legends Golf & Country Resort Bhd. As part of your application, it was also stated that part of your monthly sub fee will be paid to the Legends Golf & Country Resort Bhd under the declaration form signed by you when applying for the membership. I have attached the scan copies of the form for your perusal (please refer to point 8).
At the Members' Briefing on 6 Oct 08 and in our letter dated 28 Oct08, we mentioned that "Golfing Members" would have to pay a reduced subscription during the renovation period. The term "Golfing Member" refers to all categories of members who enjoy golfing privileges at The Legends Golf & Country Resort, and it was used to distinguish these members from"Social Members" who do not have golfing privileges. We apologise if this was unclear to you.
For this instance, we would like to reiterate that there are no changes made to your membership type. It was at the later stage that the club had introduced Social Membership as part of the club membership drive to recruit new members.
Alternatively, as mentioned in our letter, we are offering a one-time irreversible conversion to Social Membership. I have attached a copy of the conversion form for your perusal. Kindly fax the completed form to Membership Department at 6334 7873 should you decide to do the conversion to Social Membership. Upon receiving your form, we will waive the sub fee from 16 October 2008 to March 2009 during the renovation period. When the club re-opens, your monthly sub fee will be based on Social Membership type.
We thank you for your past support and look forward to welcoming you back to new and improved Club facilities in 2009.
With kind regards
===
That obviously does not address her main concern. So Sally has written back with the following:
===
I fail to understand why you see no need to re-name our membership from "Ordinary Member" to "Ordinary Golf Member" since you mentioned that we are member with golfing privileges and this distinguish us from the Social Members when the club decided to offer Social memberships!
And as per your website, there are just 2 types of memberships that the club has now, which are "Ordinary Golfing" and "Ordinary Social".Wouldn't it be clearer and fairer to re-align all membership types from the old ones to the current new types?Which in this case, re-align/re-name ours from "Ordinary Member" to "Ordinary Golfing" member!?
Unless you're telling me that "Ordinary Member with golfing privileges" is not the same as term as "Ordinary Golfing" membership!!!??? Pls comment.
===
As you can read, she and I are both arriving at the same conclusion: why does it say "Ordinary Golf Membership" on the website and the club refuses to put that down in writing. It is not that we are "unclear" and do not understand their explanation. It's that we want "Ordinary Golf Membership" in writing.
Those of you are "Ordinary Members with golfing privileges", would you also like to get this matter cleared up and in writing? Please write in to the club and attention it to Ellane and Herbert. Do update us on what they say.
Tuesday, November 11, 2008
Ordinary Golf Membership Status
So after the letter from the Club regarding our membership status, we were not comforted with the content that was sent to us. So my wife sent in the following email:
====
Dear XXX,
====
Let's see if we get another letter confirming that we are "Ordinary Golfing Members". It is already given that both Social and Golfing members are "Ordinary Members". If the club is making a distinction online with "Ordinary Golfing" and "Ordinary Social", then it should say so in any document pertaining to us.
I do not want to find out later on that "ordinary member with golfing privileges" is not the same as "Ordinary Golfing Member". It may be so today, but what is to stop the proprietor club owners from one day saying that it is not the same? And that there will be three tiers: Ordinary Social Members, Ordinary Members with Golf Privileges, and Ordinary Golfing Members. Right???
Anyhow, the rest of the email was about the newly revised monthly fees. I will cover that in another post.
====
Dear XXX,
I have received 2 letters from Legends. Thank you.
However, please see your attached letters, I have highlighted on in and require you clarification.
The 1st letter to inform us the type of Membership that we have purchased.
However, it did not state that we are Ordinary Golfing Members. (see below extracted from your website http://www.legendsfortcanning.
The Legends Fort Canning Park
Ordinary Membership
Individual Membership
| Membership Types | Entrance Fee | Transfer Fee | Monthly Subscription |
| Ordinary Golfing | $15,000 | $1,000 | $105 (S) / $125 (F) |
| Ordinary Social | $6,888 | $1,000 | $85 (S) / $105 (F) |
Let's see if we get another letter confirming that we are "Ordinary Golfing Members". It is already given that both Social and Golfing members are "Ordinary Members". If the club is making a distinction online with "Ordinary Golfing" and "Ordinary Social", then it should say so in any document pertaining to us.
I do not want to find out later on that "ordinary member with golfing privileges" is not the same as "Ordinary Golfing Member". It may be so today, but what is to stop the proprietor club owners from one day saying that it is not the same? And that there will be three tiers: Ordinary Social Members, Ordinary Members with Golf Privileges, and Ordinary Golfing Members. Right???
Anyhow, the rest of the email was about the newly revised monthly fees. I will cover that in another post.
Monday, November 10, 2008
Membership Status
Sorry I have been quiet on this blog. We just came back from a holiday in Bangkok and Cha-Am.
Anyway, Linda - my wife - wrote in to the club to request "an official letter stating clearly that we are Golfing members in the contract. As explained, there is no clear indication in your old contract given to us when we first joined the club." The original letter from the Club when we joined did not state clearly whether we were Ordinary Golf Members or not.
The club sent us a snail mail letter to clarify this matter. The letter is below:
Click above to see a larger image.
In any case, this letter does not really state that we are "Ordinary Golf Members"....
Anyway, Linda - my wife - wrote in to the club to request "an official letter stating clearly that we are Golfing members in the contract. As explained, there is no clear indication in your old contract given to us when we first joined the club." The original letter from the Club when we joined did not state clearly whether we were Ordinary Golf Members or not.
The club sent us a snail mail letter to clarify this matter. The letter is below:
Click above to see a larger image.
In any case, this letter does not really state that we are "Ordinary Golf Members"....
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