2008-12-03 Renovation Update!

Hey All, Yes it has been a while....

I just went to the club today to have a look around. Here are some pictures (click on the pictures to see a larger image:

1) The driveway is pretty busy with containers and such. I was told to park downstairs.


2) The pool is fine but the water level is about 1.5 feet below normal.



3) During my walk, I see that the ballroom is still functioning and was setting up. The tent is still up and ready. The Tennis Court is still the same so no work has commenced on the glass building at all.

4) Legends Garden has been completely gutted. Check out the attached photos.



More update sooner or later....

Joe out.

Ordinary Golf Membership Status - More 3

We have a reply:

===
Dear Linda,

I refer to your email dated 17 Nov 08.

We confirm you are holding an Ordinary Membership with golfing privileges. We do not have a category called Ordinary Golfing Membership, and no members hold a membership called Ordinary Golfing Membership. Even after we introduced the Ordinary Social Membership, the membership with golfing privileges continued to be referred to as Ordinary Membership in all our official correspondence. As mentioned in our earlier correspondences, when we referred to “Golfing” Members in our letter on the reduced subscriptions and in the website, we did so to differentiate them from “Social” Members – we apologise if this has led to some confusion. We have taken note of this and will refer to the various memberships by their proper names in all future correspondences.

As for the website, we have removed all types of membership as we are currently not selling memberships, and are preparing to completely change the website to reflect the new Club facilities.

Yours sincerely
===

"We apologise if this has led to some confusion".....?#!@#$@#$%@#$%

So it is our fault that we are confused. That they have been "confusing" prospect members with "Ordinary Golf Membership"? That they have used "Golfing Members" in their correspondences to us? Isn't this just a case of "over-marketing" with overstated exaggeration, embellishments and double-speak?

"we did so to differentiate them from 'Social' Members" - I agree. It is better distinction than "Ordinary members with golfing privileges". So just change it to "Golfing Members" then. What's the matter with doing that?

Membership Buy-Back Scheme - Update

Ms. Ng has been corresponding with the GM on this issue. (See last week's posting on this)

Below is the latest chaser.

==
Dear Herbert,

Below is your reply in blue.

"We have explored your recommendations thoroughly and the
management has concurred that, since there are agents who have
interested buyers, excited by the new developments in the Legends
Fort Canning Park, and willing to purchase the memberships in the
open market currently, we need not implement a buy-back scheme and it
will be more beneficial for you to sell it through this existing
channel. Please feel free to let us know if you wish to sell your
membership and we can make the necessary introduction. "

I'm afraid that your reply simply informed members to sell it at open market. Will the management help the members to sell at reasonable price and waive the transfer fee?

Otherwise, please give the members Buy Back Scheme as an option.

Regards
==

Will the Management and Owner offer a Buy Back Scheme?
Will they instead waive transfer fees?
Will they have another higher membership level?

Enquiring minds what to know.

Stay tuned...

Ordinary Golf Membership Status - More 2

My wife has been pursuing more regarding having a formal letter stating that we are "Ordinary Golf Member" instead of "Ordinary Member with Golfing Privileges". She has not been getting a reply, so here is her latest chaser:

===
Dear Amy,

Please revert as I have not heard anything back from you or the Club or even from Herbert. I want an Official Contract letter stating that we are holding an Ordinary Golf Membership and NOT an Ordinary Membership with Golfing Privileges. They are 2 different meanings to the membership.

If I am going to be charged the Golfing fees for Malaysia while the club is undergoing a renovation (Because you claimed that we are Golfing Members), I deserved to be given a proper Contract so as to avoid dispute later on from the Proprietor that we are not Golfing members.

Also, I noticed that the link http://www.legendsfortcanning.com/fortcanning/member.htm for the Types of Memberships have been removed. Why is there so? Are you undergoing change of type Memberships again?

Appreciate your reply and explanation to the above. Also, follow up with our revised Contract.

Kind regards,
Linda
===

It is interesting that they have taken down all info at the Membership page of the club website. This just feeds the conspiracy theory that they are going to create a 3rd type of membership above "Ordinary Member with Golfing Privileges". Let's see how the club responds now.

Membership Buy-Back Scheme

I have been following this email thread between a couple of members and the GM on the above issue. I was waiting to see how this pans out before posting, but I think it is time to update the members at large and in exile.

Last week Ms. Ng wrote in to Mr. Hofer:
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Dear Herbert,

We joined the club for about 4 years only for the facilities offered. As there is a material changed, the club has to offer Buy Back Scheme to members who not wish to continue with the membership. This was agreed in your briefing.

It is unreasonable to ask members to sell the membership at open market and pay the transfer fee.

We appreciate that you could look into it and give members a reply by next week. Otherwise, we have no alternative but to seek help at appropriate channel.

Regards
===

The GM wrote back to Ms. Ng:
===
Dear Mr Ng,

Thank you very much for your valuable suggestion on the buy-back scheme and sorry for the somewhat late reply.

We have explored your recommendations thoroughly and the management has concurred that, since there are agents who have interested buyers, excited by the new developments in the Legends Fort Canning Park, and willing to purchase the memberships in the open market currently, we need not implement a buy-back scheme and it will be more beneficial for you to sell it through this existing channel. Please feel free to let us know if you wish to sell your membership and we can make the necessary introduction.

We sincerely appreciate your feedback and look forward to your continuous support especially when we open again in 2009 with the revamped and improved Legends Fort Canning Park.

Yours sincerely,
===

Lyn also wrote in a couple of days after that:
===
Dear Herbert,

I agree with Ms Ng's views.

Given that (i) the club has changed its facilities and the use of the colonial building and (ii) the basis upon which members had purchased the membership no longer exists in view of the renovations, management should consider a buy back scheme to purchase the membership at a reasonable price.

Alternatively, management should assist members who are no longer interested in being members to sell their membership and agree to waive the monthly fees and transfer fees during the period when members are seeking buyers.

With respect to your email below, you mentioned that there are agents with interested buyers. If so, can you provide the details of such agents for our consideration as well? We are indeed curious to find out if there are really "interested buyers, excited by the new developments
in the Legends Fort Canning Park."

We look forward to your response.

Kind regards,
===

The GM wrote back:
===
Dear Ms. Ng,
At the members briefing the owners promised to "consider looking into a
buyback scheme" and as per my earlier e-mail we have given you our decision.
In case you wish to sell your membership we would recommend you to contact
Tee Up Marketing at 62980174, who has been transacting sale of memberships.
Very kind regards
===

The phone number given was wrong so he corrected it in another email as 6298 2559 or 9760 5080.

Anyhow, Ms. Ng wrote back to the GM:
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Dear Herbert,

Sorry, where is your Buy Back Scheme? We appreciate that you address this issue and not push it to the sale agent. Buy Back Scheme and Open market sale are totally two different matters. Please don't confuse the members and delay this matter.

Please give members a reply.

Regards
===

There are more developments. I will post it later today.

Cheers!!!

Ordinary Golf Membership Status - More

Another member - Sally - has been corresponding with the Club management on the same issue: She and her husband joined 4 years ago and wanted clarification that her membership is "Ordinary Golf" Status.

She updated me on her email correspondences. See them below in chronological order:

===
To: contact@legendsfortcanning.com

Subject: Enquiry: Exact Membership Status (urgent)

With reference to our files attached.Pls look through and help us understand our membership status.

As far as we understand, when we joined in year 2004, there were only 2 types of membership i.e. Ordinary and Corporate.And under Ordinary,it's sub-divided into "Family" and "Individual".

The membership allows us to enjoy facilties of both clubs( which is The Legends Fort Canning and The Legends Golf & Country Resort).It's stated for golf rates, we have to call and enquire (pls note it didn't say "free green fee").

Now, our questions....ever since the club decided to renovate the club premises, we come to realise that we fall into "Golf membership" category simply because we pay a monthly subscription of $125+!

1.We would like to know since when my "Ordinary membership" status is now "Golf membership"?

2.When did the club re-categorise the various memberships when in the past there were only "Ordinary" and "Corporate"?

3.Assuming ours is now re-named ( as you seem fit) as "Golf membership", why is there no formal letter written to us regarding the change of status?

Now, before you conveniently charge mus the extra subscription fee (during this period when the club is renovating)due to your assumption that we're "Golf" member, can you please take time to verify our status again.

Should you still think we fit into "Golf membership", we insist that you have to write to us a formal letter/contract, stating clearly that our membership is now recognised as "Golf Family Membership" instead of "Ordinary Family Membership".

It's only fair that you formally verify our status before charging us anything further during this period of renovation.

We hope to receive your reply on this issue asap.Please do not take too long as our patience is quite limited and you should know that the club reputation is already at stake after what have already gone through the public media.

Regards
===

The reply she got was:

===

Thank you for your email dated 09 November 2008.

We would like to apologize once again for any inconvenience caused by the Club renovations, and seek your understanding for the administrative proceedings associated with them.

With regards to the type of membership that you are holding, we would like to clarify that you had singed up for an Ordinary Membership which includes golfing privileges at The Legends Golf & Country Resort Bhd. As part of your application, it was also stated that part of your monthly sub fee will be paid to the Legends Golf & Country Resort Bhd under the declaration form signed by you when applying for the membership. I have attached the scan copies of the form for your perusal (please refer to point 8).

At the Members' Briefing on 6 Oct 08 and in our letter dated 28 Oct08, we mentioned that "Golfing Members" would have to pay a reduced subscription during the renovation period. The term "Golfing Member" refers to all categories of members who enjoy golfing privileges at The Legends Golf & Country Resort, and it was used to distinguish these members from"Social Members" who do not have golfing privileges. We apologise if this was unclear to you.

For this instance, we would like to reiterate that there are no changes made to your membership type. It was at the later stage that the club had introduced Social Membership as part of the club membership drive to recruit new members.

Alternatively, as mentioned in our letter, we are offering a one-time irreversible conversion to Social Membership. I have attached a copy of the conversion form for your perusal. Kindly fax the completed form to Membership Department at 6334 7873 should you decide to do the conversion to Social Membership. Upon receiving your form, we will waive the sub fee from 16 October 2008 to March 2009 during the renovation period. When the club re-opens, your monthly sub fee will be based on Social Membership type.

We thank you for your past support and look forward to welcoming you back to new and improved Club facilities in 2009.

With kind regards
===

That obviously does not address her main concern. So Sally has written back with the following:

===
I fail to understand why you see no need to re-name our membership from "Ordinary Member" to "Ordinary Golf Member" since you mentioned that we are member with golfing privileges and this distinguish us from the Social Members when the club decided to offer Social memberships!

And as per your website, there are just 2 types of memberships that the club has now, which are "Ordinary Golfing" and "Ordinary Social".Wouldn't it be clearer and fairer to re-align all membership types from the old ones to the current new types?Which in this case, re-align/re-name ours from "Ordinary Member" to "Ordinary Golfing" member!?

Unless you're telling me that "Ordinary Member with golfing privileges" is not the same as term as "Ordinary Golfing" membership!!!??? Pls comment.
===

As you can read, she and I are both arriving at the same conclusion: why does it say "Ordinary Golf Membership" on the website and the club refuses to put that down in writing. It is not that we are "unclear" and do not understand their explanation. It's that we want "Ordinary Golf Membership" in writing.

Those of you are "Ordinary Members with golfing privileges", would you also like to get this matter cleared up and in writing? Please write in to the club and attention it to Ellane and Herbert. Do update us on what they say.

Ordinary Golf Membership Status

So after the letter from the Club regarding our membership status, we were not comforted with the content that was sent to us. So my wife sent in the following email:

====
Dear XXX,

I have received 2 letters from Legends. Thank you.

However, please see your attached letters, I have highlighted on in and require you clarification.

The 1^st letter to inform us the type of Membership that we have purchased.

However, it did not state that we are Ordinary Golfing Members. (see below extracted from your website http://www.legendsfortcanning.com/fortcanning/member.htm) Instead, it was stated that we are Ordinary Members but includes Golfing Privileges. This is not acceptable for us. Kindly resend us a Letter confirming that we are Ordinary Golfing Members. Also, please change and send us our Revised Membership Card. It was never stated that we are holding Golfing Membership for us....

The Legends Fort Canning Park

Ordinary Membership

Individual Membership

Membership Types	Entrance Fee	Transfer Fee	Monthly Subscription
Ordinary Golfing	$15,000	$1,000	$105 (S) / $125 (F)
Ordinary Social	$6,888	$1,000	$85 (S) / $105 (F)

====

Let's see if we get another letter confirming that we are "Ordinary Golfing Members". It is already given that both Social and Golfing members are "Ordinary Members". If the club is making a distinction online with "Ordinary Golfing" and "Ordinary Social", then it should say so in any document pertaining to us.

I do not want to find out later on that "ordinary member with golfing privileges" is not the same as "Ordinary Golfing Member". It may be so today, but what is to stop the proprietor club owners from one day saying that it is not the same? And that there will be three tiers: Ordinary Social Members, Ordinary Members with Golf Privileges, and Ordinary Golfing Members. Right???

Anyhow, the rest of the email was about the newly revised monthly fees. I will cover that in another post.

Membership Status

Sorry I have been quiet on this blog. We just came back from a holiday in Bangkok and Cha-Am.

Anyway, Linda - my wife - wrote in to the club to request "an official letter stating clearly that we are Golfing members in the contract. As explained, there is no clear indication in your old contract given to us when we first joined the club." The original letter from the Club when we joined did not state clearly whether we were Ordinary Golf Members or not.

The club sent us a snail mail letter to clarify this matter. The letter is below:


Click above to see a larger image.

In any case, this letter does not really state that we are "Ordinary Golf Members"....

Reduction in Monthly Fees for Golf Members during Renovation

Hey All. Good news!

This email came in yesterday from Amy regarding the Golf Member's fees for the next 6 months (or so).

===
"We appreciate your feedback and understand your concern on the reduced subscription fee for Ordinary Membership during the renovation period. We are pleased to inform you that The Legends Golf & Country Resort has agreed to lower the subscriptions and we will be sending affected members an official letter informing them of this soon."
===

Look in the post for those letters. Not sure what the amount will be either. I hope it will be substantial.

Interesting visitors

Yes, we certainly have had some very interesting visitors to this blog lately:

Network Location	Visits	Pages/Visit
urban redevelopment authority	21	2.333333333
singapore press holdings ltd	17	3.117647059
drew & napier llc	2	1

Apology Letter

Click the image to see a larger version.

This is in relation to this posting. (Sorry, I have pulled this posting.)

Legends Fort Canning Club's Arrangement with True Fitness

My wife contacted True Fitness at Suntec last week to register for the 6-months package at SGD99 per month. I did not want to sign up because it would cost SGD200 for the 2 of us; $75 more per month than what our monthly Golfing Member subscriptions at TLFC. I figured she can keep her shapely girlish figure and I will work on my beer belly.

Anyhow, True Fitness/Planet Fitness can't accept applications right now, because there are some contractual issues between The Legends Fort Canning and True Fitness. This should be resolved within the next few days.

My wife and I visited the True Fitness Suntec branch yesterday. We got the tour and decided to take the 1-for-1 American Express promotion instead of the TLFC Special. SGD 1,599 annual membership for 2 people. This price is about to go up to SGD 1,988 or something like that. Anyhow this works out to SGD 133 per month.

The membership allows you to use other branches and take yoga classes as well:

Great World City Branch
China Square Central Branch
Chevron House - Raffles Place
Parkway Parade Branch
Vivocity Branch

Note that this does not allow you access to the True Yoga centers at Pacific Plaza (Scotts Rd) and Ocean Towers (Raffles Place).

Good luck and stay healthy and stress free.

Ohmmmmmmmm..........

P.S. Drop me an email if you know what is the issue between The Legends Fort Canning and True Fitness.

My Legends Fort Canning Agreement

I mentioned before that the agreement from the Club does not say anything about whether you are a Golf Member or a Social Member and that since they have started with these different membership types, it has not been clear to members what they are.

Well, here are images of the two pages of my contract. You can see for yourself what I mean. What is your contract like? What does it say?

===
Click on the image below to see a legible picture:


===

Petition to URA sent

Hi All,

The petition that was signed last week as sent to URA earlier this week. Here is the content for those of you who have not seen it. After the text below, there are two images for you to print out and sign, if you would like to participate. Once signed, please scan and email to me @ goo.nguyen@gmail.com

===

Petition to the Urban Redevelopment Authority of Singapore
And the Singapore Heritage Society
By the Members of The Legends Fort Canning Park
15th October 2008

Description/Background:

On the 25th of September 2008, the Management of The Legends Fort Canning Park sent notices to its members (“Members”) regarding “Member’s Conference on Club Renovation”. This conference was to be held on the 6th of October 2008, and the Management plans to share with the Members “the plans for the Club, new facilities and improvements”.

At the Member’s Conference on the 6th of October 2008, the Members were informed that:

1) The current building, a heritage structure, will be converted to a 82 room boutique hotel with up-market restaurants;

2) Members’ facilities such as gymnasium, lounge, spa, and changing areas will be moved to a new 3-storey glass building to be constructed on top of the current tennis court, and these facilities will be shared with hotel guests;

3) Except for the Ballrooms and Function Rooms, the Club will be completely closed from 16th October 2008 to 1st April 2009 (save for the Café which will remain open until 31 October 2008), and members will have no access to the Club during that period. ;

4) It was also stated that one of the main factors in this decision to change the Club was a result of a survey in which one of the facilities Members wanted the most was guest rooms. Do note that this survey took place 2 years ago and no recent survey on whether Members agree to the proposed renovations was ever undertaken;

5) These plans have the approval of the Urban Redevelopment Authority.

Petition:

We, the undersigned Members of The Legends Fort Canning Park, hereby declare that this change of use of the current building does NOT have our endorsement or support. We have all paid joining fees and monthly subscription fees to the Club, housed in a historical building, fully furnished and with all its present amenities, historic charm, ambiance and space. We do not want to be moved to a smaller building, and we would like to have continuous use of the current facilities without any interruption due to any renovation. We respectfully request the Urban Redevelopment Authority to halt the commencement of any renovation that it has permitted or approved until the Members and the Management has worked out an agreement. All work should be put on hold indefinitely until the Management and the Members come to a fair consensus on any changes to the Club. We request that the Club remain open during the entire period from 16th October 2008 to 1st April 2009.

===

An image of the petition is below along with the page for signing. Please click on each image and then print them out and sign and send back to me. Thanks!

Harry's Reply: "Trustworthy" Proprietor's Club

Ok, here is Harry's reply to the "high handed" email from the Club:

===
Ms Cheong,

I attached a weblink which explains one of the reasons why I decided to take up membership of the TLFC despite the rather negative views of Proprietor's Club vs Member's Club, and this was an open statement recorded by Mr Oh Chee Eng which assured

'... prove to the members that we're trustworthy, ...'

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/cna/finance/moneymind/ep46-bigpic2002.htm

and as specified in Para 2 of the Rules & Regulations:

2. 'The object of the Club is to provide for the use and enjoyment by the Members of facilities (the “ Facilities ”) for recreation, entertainment, dining and/or such other activities as the Proprietor may from time to time at its discretion decide.'

I believe many of the Club Members would have given full support to the Plans if there were more timely engagement on the business challenges facing the Club and the actions going forward to mitigate these challenges.

I am afraid that this was done very late and I would give the benefit of doubt to the Club given focus on the other more pressing matters and oversight by certain internal functions. Nontheless, I would be monitoring the development plans closely and looking forward to the use of the improved facilities in Apr-09.

Rgds
Harry
===

WOW!!! I don't know how Harry found that transcript of the ChannelNewsAsia show, but there is very interesting stuff there.

Another quote from Chairman Oh:
===
"If you look at all the other clubs that run into trouble, it's not because the operators of the club has run into trouble but because the money of the club was used in the ventures. The thing that we want to do is to guarantee members that we would not misuse this funds and use the clubs property to raise loans and use it for any other businesses other than the club purposes."
Oh Chee Eng, Co-Exec Chairman, The Legends at Fort Canning
===

I am still waiting for a response from the Club regarding the $80 per month for golf members and whether or not the Legends Golf & Country Resort is draining Legend Fort Canning's cash. A somewhat related issue to the above.

"High Handed Manner" Toward Members

This email chain came in from Harry Law, a loyal member:-

On 15 October (last week), he wrote in to the Club as follows:
===
MS Amy Cheong & Mr Herbert Hofer,

Ref the memo issued by Ms Cheong dd 9-Oct to club members informing them of the impending renovations and to seek alternative gym arrangements for an unspecified period.

I am totally disappointed that the Club Mgmt has taken this stand to deprive the very members, which account for the existance of the club, of the use of a core facility, without equivalent replacement.

I joined the club primarily to make use of the gym as it had good equipment and located near to my office.

I have been reading plans by the Club Mgmt and Owners in the newspapers to convert part of the club to a hotel, and have not had ANY formal letters or meetings organised by the Club Mgmt to keep us better informed and take our queries.

This very high handed manner of TELLING the members does not do justice to the Club. My encounters with the Club staff have always been positive and I enjoy the excellent service, esp from those manning the gym, sauna and restaurants.

Your recommendation that members should seek alternate gym memberships and pay for their use, whilst the TLFC Club undergo renovation shows clearly your lack of good sense and fair play, and as much as I do not like to speak out, I am afraid that not doing anything is a worst option.

Rgds

HARRY LAW
===

I think many of us feel this way. To me, the way that members have been treated is more like a principal speaking to a primary school student than a business talking to its loyal customers. If Singapore Airlines treated their PPS members like that, their reputation would be very different.

The reply to Harry from the Club is cold and canned, - if not an outright reprimand:
===
Dear Mr Law,

We refer to your email dated 15 October 2008.

The Proprietor is very serious about the viability and survival of the Club, and is unable to run the Club and keep it alive if the usage is only 10% of its optimum occupancy. On top of that, in the past 5 years, members' spending has been very low. Despite this, the Proprietor has refrained from increasing subscriptions, or imposing minimum spending these past 5 years. The only way for the Club to survive is for it to make money using whatever resources it has. As members, the heritage building will still be yours to enjoy as the 1st floor will still house restaurants like before, and members will enjoy the hotel rooms as another added facility at exclusive member's rates. Special packages for members will be created that will include fun for the whole family.

We acknowledge that in such a major undertaking, we would not be able to please everyone, and we understand that there are some members who are not happy with the Club renovation. As mentioned at the Briefing, the Club is maintaining an open dialogue with members.

When we first took over the premises of the Club in November 2002, the first renovation took almost 18 months as we did the work in phases, keeping some parts of the Club open whilst renovating other parts. We received a lot of negative feedback on the noise, dust and general inconvenience to members. So learning from that experience we took the decision to close the Club, suspend subscriptions and offer alternative Gym facilities. If we were to keep the Club open during the renovation, we would have collected subscriptions, albeit at a reduced rate. Keeping the Club open would also expose members to possible accidents as they would be using facilities in what would essentially be a construction site.

We would like to remind you that when you joined the Club, you signed an undertaking to abide by the Club Rules and Regulations (a copy of which is on the website). Please note the following paragraphs in the Rules & Regulations:

5.4 Repairs
Without prejudice to the generality of the foregoing, if at any time it appears to the Proprietor that any of the Facilities is congested, in need of any repair, renovations, inspection, expansion or maintenance or required for the use of the Proprietor for any purpose as the Proprietor may decide, the Proprietor may at its discretion impose conditions on, restrict, suspend or otherwise limit the rights and privileges of the Members in respect of any one or more of such Facilities. The Proprietor shall not in any way be liable for any inconvenience or loss that may be suffered or sustained by any Member or any other person entitled or permitted to use and enjoy the Facilities resulting from such conditions, restrictions, suspension or limitation.

5.5 Alternative Facilities
The Proprietor shall be entitled to substitute any of the Facilities with any other facility that the Proprietor deems appropriate in the event that any such Facility cannot, for any reason whatsoever, be made available for the use and enjoyment of the Members. In the event that such alternative facility cannot be procured, the Proprietor shall have the absolute discretion to discontinue providing such Facility and the Proprietor shall not in any way be liable for any inconvenience or loss that may be suffered or sustained by any Member or any other person entitled or permitted to use and enjoy the Facilities resulting from the Proprietor not providing such Facility.

24.1 Powers vested in Proprietor
The powers of management and administration of the Club shall be vested solely in the Proprietor whose decision on any question or matter shall be conclusive, final and binding on the Members. The Proprietor may appoint such persons or bodies of persons as it may deem fit to carry out any part of the functions of the management and administration of the Club, subject to such terms and conditions as the Proprietor may impose. The Members will not in any manner be involved in the management of the Club. Further, the Proprietor shall have the full discretion to deal with or dispose of the Assets of the Club or any part thereof and to pledge the same for any purpose which includes, but is not limited to, borrowing money for any business ventures or investments, whether related to the Club or not, as the Proprietor may determine from time to time provided that the Proprietor shall not create any security interests over the Club's assets except in relation to any indebtedness incurred in respect of the operations, renovations, upgrading and other matter in connection with, or resulting from the Proprietor's ownership and operation of the Club.

27. Dispute Settlement
Any dispute or difference which may arise as to the meaning or interpretation of these Rules and the Bye-laws or as to the powers of the officers or the Proprietor, or the validity of any proceedings of the Proprietor and/or the Club shall be determined by the Proprietor, whose decision shall be final and binding upon all the Members of the Club.

While the Proprietor may consider feedback from Members, as a private club (as opposed to a members' club), the final decision is legally the sole prerogative of the Proprietor. The most constructive form of engagement is for members to address their concerns to the club directly.

As for communication with the members on the renovation, members were notified of the decision to revamp the Club in the four issues of the Club newsletter from January 2008. On 25 September, a letter was sent to all members informing them of the date for the Club closure and inviting them to the Members' Briefing on 6 October 08. The same letter was blown up to A3 size and posted on the Club notice boards at the Gym and the Lobby.

We hope that this has made the Club's stand clearer to you.
===

From my perspective, Harry made a very valid complaint to the Management and Owner and was shot back with a letter written by a lawyer. If he had wanted a lawyer's reply, he would have gotten a lawyer to write in on his behalf.

Harry had a great reply to the email from the Club above. I will put that in the next posting.

Comment by Anonymous Outsider

An interesting set of comments were left in the Forum section (at the bottom).

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Oct 17 2008, 7:05 PM
Unknown (guest): After reading the above topics, it is quite clear that the management does not take their members seriously. Especially when they know that its a propriety club and that only the management gets to decide whatever they want.

Oct 17 2008, 7:09 PM
Unknown (guest): I believe that the staff may/may not be entirely responsible for being unclear in informing the members of the changes as ultimately only the boss has the final say and they did as they were told to probably not create a big hoo-haa until the final word frm the boss himself has been said.

Oct 17 2008, 7:16 PM
Unknown (guest): Whatever it is, it seems like it's poor handling by the upper management themself and i guess i pity the staff who probably also gets bombarded by all the questions being posed coz they themselves have no say towards anything. Just a thought by the way from an outsider point of view. This matter has definitely made a heated arguement and will not blow over under the upper management give a clearer say or be truthful and not try to give excuses or a politically correct answer to shrug off the members.
====

My comment on StraitsTimes

Go here and comment. Link back to this blog if you can.

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Main Issues:

1. Short notice given to members

URA preliminary approval was issued months ago but the management did not update the members at that time. URA final approval was issued in early Sept but members only got a letter on 25 Sept 08 inviting us to attend a meeting on 6 Oct 08 and stating that use of all facilities will be suspended with effect from 16 Oct (today!!!). IT IS UNREASONABLE TO GIVE LESS THAN ONE MONTH'S NOTICE BEFORE SUSPENDING ALL FACILITIES.

2. No consultation process or feedback dialogue with members

Members were never consulted on the construction of the new 3-storey glass building. Many members bought into the membership because we love the colonial architecture of the main building but under the proposed renovations, the building is going to be converted into a hotel and members are squashed into a glass building. THIS INDICATES THAT MANAGEMENT DOES NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT MEMBERS' FEEDBACK AND ARE DETERMINED TO PROCEED WITH RENOVATIONS NO MATTER WHAT.

3. Why couldn't the renovation be done in stages?

The management obviously could not care less for the members. Members buy the membership because we wish to enjoy the facilities with our families and friends. Why couldnt the management stagger the renovation, ie build the glass building with the necessary facilities and thereafter renovate the colonial building for the hotel rooms?

4. No buy-back scheme

Members feel short-changed. It is one matter to renovate the club to spruce up the facilities but it is DRASTIC matter if members are shifted out of the beautiful heritage building and squashed into a tiny glass building. Management is however not offering any buy-back scheme for members who are aggrieved.

5. URA Guidelines – Members are entitled to at least 50% of the covered area.

Further to the meeting with URA on 15 Oct, members understand that we are entitled to EXCLUSIVE USE OF 50% of the covered area of the current development. We are not even aware of this fact! The point is that the ball rooms and functions rooms are being constantly leased out for weddings and events and members have NO priority in booking such facilities. Members have lodged a formal complaint with URA to look into this matter as we take the view that our rights have been infringed and we do not have exclusive use of 50% of the property.

Secondly, URA has told us that members are entitled to EXCLUSIVE use of the 3 storey glass building after renovations. According to the management, the 3 storey building comprise of a café on the first level, a spa on the second level and the gym on the 3rd level. Management has however told us that public can have access to the spa and that hotel guests can have access to the gym. Members need to understand from management which 50% belongs to members exclusively so we can enforce our rights, but management has been tight-lipped.

6. The misleading verbiage of a supposed survey that none of us recall pertaining to the desire for "guest rooms" by members, which is quite different than the complete conversion to a hotel. The club management misleading stated and attempted to make the public believe that their renovation in converting the main building to a hotel was favored by the members, when in fact, nearly every single member of the club DOES NOT SUPPORT turning the main building into a hotel.

7. The issue of the 2 tier subscription fees which most of the earlier members are not aware of. And the $80/- fees for the next 6 months with not even the use of the parking facilities at the club.
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Sunday Straits Times: "The Legends' members irked"

Yay! We are heard in the Sunday Times. I did ask for the URL to be posted, but that did not happen. It was just a wish in any case.

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Oct 19, 2008

The Legends' members irked

By Gracia Chiang

IT BEGAN as a gripe that The Legends Fort Canning Park's colonial-style club building was to be converted into a hotel. Members would be moved to a new glass building, one-quarter the size of the original clubhouse. After a blog was started by a member, another grouse surfaced: that the management did not properly tell members that the club will be closed for six months. Now, some members have signed a petition against the temporary closure, protesting that they have been left out in the cold. The closure, from Oct 16 this year to April 1 next year, is for a $70 million renovation project to turn around the ailing club, which has a membership of 1,200 - just 10 per cent of its target. Members like regional manager Joe Nguyen, 37, protested that they were given short notice about the closure. He said: 'We feel like we're being kicked out. We were never consulted.' The club said it had sent out a letter to members on Sept 25, informing them about the closure date and inviting them to a presentation briefing on Oct 6. Its public relations director, Ms Amy Cheong, acknowledged that while the 1,200 members were not given 'exact details', they had been told as early as January in their newsletters that they should expect upcoming renovations. She explained that the club had been waiting for plans to be approved by the Urban Redevelopment Authority (URA) before releasing details to members. Mr Nguyen was among some 250 members who attended the Oct 6 briefing. He set up a blog the same day, giving members a platform to air their concerns. Some 40 members have since visited the website and left their contact details. They also aired other gripes. 'When we bought our membership, we really liked the colonial-style architecture,' said Mr Nguyen. On the hotel project, club CEO Oh Chee Eng explained that unless members were willing to pay a substantially higher monthly subscription, the club needed the new business model to stay viable. He stressed that as a proprietary club, it had every right to make changes to the club's facilities. During the briefing, the club's management also cited a survey it conducted two years ago, in which members said they would like to have guest rooms. But member Jerry Barisano, 55, chairman of a media company, was not convinced. 'Guest rooms are very different from turning the building into a hotel,' he said. Some members also took issue with the fact that hotel guests would have access to facilities in the members' new glass building. This was disclosed to them at the briefing. When contacted, Mr Oh called this 'a mistake' and said the management had since come to an agreement on Thursday that all facilities in the new members' block would be exclusive to members and their guests. Separately, the URA also met five club members earlier last week. They had wanted to seek clarifications on its consideration of the proposed renovation work. The URA told The Sunday Times it was able to support the management's proposal to partially convert the club for hotel use as it proposed to keep the predominant floor area of the development for sports and recreation use for the club members. During the renovation period, monthly subscriptions will be suspended except for golf members who will pay a reduced fee for the continued use of facilities at The Legends Golf & Country Resort in Malaysia. Golfing members, who currently pay a monthly fee of $125 for families and $105 for individuals, will now pay $80 and $60 respectively. Social members have been paying $105 for families and $85 for individuals. Mr Barisano is resigned to the fact that the hotel conversion will go ahead, but he hopes the petition will persuade the URA to advise the club to carry out its renovation work in phases. He added that there are now some 100 signatures to the petition and he intends to submit it to the URA this week. Not all club members are so vexed. Ms Julinn Siah, a 32-year-old manager, felt that the issue has been blown out of proportion. She said: 'My main worry is that these unhappy people will push the owner too far. If this goes on, the owner might just say since people are so against it, let's just close the club. All of us will suffer then.'

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"We are making some progress"

Jerry sent in an email with an update:

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Hello All,

Some good news to report. It looks like we are making some progress.

It has come to my attention, that via conversations between the URA and the Legends Fort Canning Club Management, it is now CONFIRMED that the Management has agreed and committed to the Urban Redevelopment Authority that the new clubhouse at the club will be FOR MEMBERS ONLY, and will not be used by hotel guests.

Our next move is to work with the URA and make sure that we do receive the 50.9% of the covered space for the club members "Exclusive" use, as we still have not received confirmation as to exactly how much of the 50.9% of the allocated space will be counted in the new clubhouse, and how much would be in the main building or any other building as part of the new renovated facility. This was not clear in the drawings that we saw at the URA office, so this needs to be clarified.

We need to follow up with the URA on Monday and Tuesday of next week, to try to clarify issues that we perviously discussed. I also look forward to receiving input back from them. I will also be faxing all of the petition signatures that I have to the URA on Monday.

On another note, I spoke to Herbert Hofer last night as I was having tea in the lobby of the Legends, prior to dinner. From our brief conversation, it sounds like the Management is realizing that they could have given the members more input prior the the construction and final plans. Nevertheless, Mr. Hofer guaranteed me that all of us members will like the new facilities much better than what we now have. He insisted that the new renovations would definitely increase the value of our memberships. I told Mr. Hofer that I will believe it when I see it, that we were happy with what we had. I also told him that most of us did not join the club as an investment, but as a place of recreation, a haven from the pressures of work, not for profit. I also told him that a lot of these problems could have been avoided had the club management been more up front with us on all developments, and had us actively involved in the process. He told me that if it had been possible to do the work in stages they would have done so. I then told him that with about 2,400 members including corporate, and with all of the brilliant minds that we have, that I really felt that together we could have figured out a way to accommodate everyone, or at the very least, come up with a compromise that would prevented or at the very least, greatly reduced all of the bad feelings that are out there right now. I also told him that he should at least be happy that they had put together a club, which although was not perfectly run, was something that all of us felt was worth fighting over. At least we cared. It was a cordial discussion, and the fact that he approached me first is a good sign.

At this point, I think that barring a miracle, it is impossible for us to put a halt to their construction plans, and the renovation. What I do suggest, is that in about two weeks time, when all of the bad feelings have blown over a bit, that we investigate forming a Members Association. I would serve in the association if requested. We should have a group of six people (a manageable number) that meets with the club management on a timely basis as part of the group, to keep the rest of our members updated on the progress of the renovation, and more importantly, to make sure that our interests are protected.

In the interim, we can also have our "LEGENDS IN EXILE" group, to meet time to time at various venues throughout Singapore over the next six months. We need to start collecting e-mail addresses as soon as possible via our web site www.legendsfortcanning.blogspot.com so that we can continue keep our members informed of what is going on, and to get as many people as possible to any functions or gatherings that we may want to have over the next 6 months or more.

Joe, please place the enclosed information of this e-mail on the web site. If anyone needs to reach me, I have a BlackBerry on me at all times, and can get back to you within minutes.

Thanks folks! Hang in there. It's only been a couple of day, but I miss our club and you guys and gals already.

Best Regards Always,

JERRY BARISANO
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A History of The Legends FC Membership Types

I love the Wayback Machine from the Internet Archives. "Browse through 85 billion web pages archived from 1996 to a few months ago." So if you put in a URL (like http://www.legendsfortcanning.com/fortcanning/member.htm), the archive will let you see all the versions that they have kept of the site over time!!!

Talking to a few members who don't remember the Club having any kind of tiered membership, I started to do a little research as my wife and I also so not remember Golfing vs. Social membership types when we joined. Hence, the Wayback Machine comes into the picture...

So back in 13 February 2004 (and probably before then), there was only 1 kind of membership (no difference between Golf or Social): See Members Benefit here.

By the 25 November 2004, the Club also began offering "OCBC Titanium-Legends Fort Canning Park Membership": See the offer here. I could not find a mention of other kinds of membership, but benefits at that time are listed here.

By 23 August 2005, the Club was offering "Ordinary Membership" without any distinction between Social or Golfing. See here. Term membership with OCBC Titanium is still available. Under the membership benefit page that September, it lists "Members enjoy access to 64 golf slots daily and unlimited access to all other facilities and activities available at The Legends Golf & Country Resort. Rewards Points can only be earned and redeemed at the Club (The Legends Fort Canning Park). For the golf rates and bookings at The Legends Golf & Country Resort, please call..."

By 27 April 2006, the Club introduced the new "Ordinary Golfing" and "Ordinary Social" membership tiers. Did anyone get the memo? Did any existing members get a letter to them that tells them what they are? I didn't.

Membership Types	Entrance Fee	Transfer Fee	Monthly Subscription
Ordinary Golfing	$7,988	$1,000	$105 (S) / $125 (F)
Ordinary Social	$5,888	$1,000	$85 (S) / $105 (F)
Membership Redemption Scheme Golfing (MRSG)	$2,500	Pls refer to Terms & Conditions below.	$105 (S) / $125 (F)
Membership Redemption Scheme Social (MRSS)	$1,500	Pls refer to Terms & Conditions below.	$85 (S) / $105 (F)
One Year Term	$3,188	Non-Transferable	N.A

By 23 November 2006, the membership chart looks as follows:

Membership Types	Entrance Fee	Transfer Fee	Monthly Subscription
Ordinary Golfing	$9,888	$1,000	$105 (S) / $125 (F)
Ordinary Social	$6,888	$1,000	$85 (S) / $105 (F)
Membership Redemption Scheme Golfing (MRSG)	$3,000	Pls refer to Terms & Conditions below.	$105 (S) / $125 (F)
Membership Redemption Scheme Social (MRSS)	$2,000	Pls refer to Terms & Conditions below.	$85 (S) / $105 (F)
One Year Term Golfing	$3,188	Non-Transferable	N.A.
One Year Term Social	$2,188	Non-Transferable	N.A.

On 23 January 2008, the last entry into the Archive lists the same as the above. (Anything after 1 April 2008 is still being processed).

Note that all this while, the Membership Benefits page archive does not mention a distinction between "Golf" and "Social". See all the versions here. EVEN the current live version on at legendsfortcanning.com does NOT have this distinction!
- "Ordinary Members are entitled for the following benefits: ...
... Members enjoy access to 64 golf slots daily and unlimited access to all other facilities and activities available at The Legends Golf & Country Resort... For the golf rates and bookings at The Legends Golf & Country Resort, please call..."

So are the current members clear on the difference between "Ordinary Golf" and "Ordinary Social"? Letter?

So somewhere between January and September 2008, the packages, listed on the current site, suddenly became:

Membership Types	Entrance Fee	Transfer Fee	Monthly Subscription
Ordinary Golfing	$15,000	$1,000	$105 (S) / $125 (F)
Ordinary Social	$6,888	$1,000	$85 (S) / $105 (F)

What does that mean? Do any members who have joined before 2006 know what is the difference between Golfing and Social membership? We know that we are both "Ordinary".